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Contradictions..........
The current choice for Vice Presidential candidate for the Republican party has brought many issues to the forefront of American Politics....
Women in Politics is a peanut butter issue to me, it evokes strong emotions for both sides of the opinion...
What about a woman in power makes people question IF she can look after her children and keep her job?
Why does that question ONLY get asked IF it's a woman up for the job?
I am not sure that any one of us should be judging the woman regarding her daughters pregnancy.....there before the grace of God go ANY one of us for being in that position.... Because she was damned if she did, and damned if she did not, like the questions that were brought up about the Edwards Affair, why did he not reveal this ?
Same for people judging her for revealing it and if she had not, they would have judged her for that too......Some people have said she may not have been vetted properly, and that screams that a woman who has a pregnant daughter should not have been considered. Are we that backward that we should even think that way? Should a candidate be taken out of the running because of a pregnant child? Are the kids only off limits IF the democrats use them ( and they have not so far ) and within limits IF the Republican party use them in photo opportunities? Or Palin herself used them in her speech? Okay for us and not them?
Look at the women who have held in power in Europe either now or in the past, Angle Merkele in Germany, Margaret Thatcher in England, Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese former and current president in the Republic of Ireland.  Were their children on the table? Was their ability to run a household and a country questioned? Granted the Presidents in Ireland are only figure heads and have no real power to speak except certain limited powers of but both were highly educated women Robinson a barrister and a member of the Irish Parliment and she served as the United nations High Commissioner on Human Rights. McAleese is also a lawyer educated at Trinity College in Dublin.  But in England and Germany, they held a LOT of power in countries that are members of the G8.

It's time we got with the program and woke up to the fact that a woman can and would be able to do a job as well as ( and sometimes better) than a man....Another area we have Miles to go in........
It's how I see it......
Joan



Published Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:31 AM by DruidsGlenTarot

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# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:18 AM

Really!  In contrast, maybe if we asked what kind of Fathers some Candidates were, we get better politicians.

I have no doubt that Sarah Palin will weather the double-standard forced on her grace and dignity.

James Vitale

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:29 AM

I am neither a republican nor a democrat and was intrigued at the choice McCain made. There are many glass ceilings to be broken, and no matter who wins, there will be history made.
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:45 PM

Dear Joan:

I agree with all that you have stated and although I do not believe in the platform that the Republicans stand on and I am not a Democrat either I can relate to what you are saying.  I was so disgusted with the news media and the muck they are digging up about this women that it made me want to vomit.  It is another form of gender bias and they did it with Hillary, with Ms. Obama and any other women who tried to reach for the brass ring in politics.  It is nothing new and those muckrakers are going to do it again if...and that is the optimum word IF we allow it.

This is a great blog and I thank you for sharing it with us. Maybe one day we will see the reality of a female holding high office within the US but Joan somehow I doubt it.

Rosie

Rosalea

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:47 PM

I sooo don't know how I missed this.  I absolutely, absolutely agree here.  And not from a partisan view, though perhaps as a woman, I think the scrutiny of the Palin children is horrible.  I remember poor Chelsea Clinton being attacked (she's BRILLIANT!) and the Bush kids' wild times (they're young.)
 
I think Psychic Dad is right, Palin will weather this well.  I guess it's part of the "test."

I was taken aback by the rumors that Trig is not her son, but grandson.  Oye.  

Thanks for the voice, Joan.  Funny, because Condi was attacked for not having children, now Palin for having them?  

Well, strong women will vote based on who they think is best...not what the media tells them is best!

Hugs to you for illuminating the issue,
Heather    

The Mathematician

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:49 PM

Ofcourse women are smart enough and capable of being president. That is not the issue for me. Palin is just not the right women. I was hoping to like her but I am disgusted by her. I think that she is selfish and clueless about the average person and how they live. I think that she comes off as self righteous. If it was a democrat whose child was pregnant, the republicans would of ate it up. They would of claimed that if they can not manage their kids how can they run the white house. The same goes for her. I think that the hypocrisy of judgement along political party lines is what is disturbing to me.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:53 PM

That's how I feel about Obama.  Like it's ok for him to not have experience, but god forbid the VP not have experience.

Such is politcs.  I think, Donna, we'll be taking this discussion off-line.  LOL.  Us?  Political?

The Mathematician

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:03 PM

My Dearest Mathie,
I am a personality buff. People skills are essential. This woman has none. She can not even fake it. She is proud of being mean and aggressive. Let's face it, if mcCain wins, he is old. She will be president. We will be at war with anyone and everyone. She is too defensive about being a woman in a mans' world. She needs more self confidence from a genuine stand point. She is wearing her game face. I like Condi and Hilary because they do not whine about being women in a mans' world. Palin had the nerves to call Hilary a whiner when Hilary claimed sexism. Now, Palin is doing the same. Whining! She's so mean!

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:24 PM

Mathie, you make a much better V.P. pick because you do not take pot shots, you stick to the issues. Maybe you can coach Palin.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 2:00 PM

Doc....did you say Hillary does not whine?  LOL. She made her career on it ;-)  I like Condi because she shows what education is all about.  

I'm not sure I would agree Palin has no personality...I've seen a lot from her the last few days.  Granted, I would like to see more than an interview with People, but I'm sure that will come.

I don't believe in agism any more than I believe in sexism or racism.  Not voting for McCain because of his age is like not voting for Obama because he is 9half) black.  I know there is the "what happens if" thought of his dying in office, but how many people do you think ask "what happens if Obama is black in office?"  Not a fair question at all, and I see approaching McCains age in the same manner.

There are many, many older people in this nation that McCain CAN represent...more than any of the younger candidates.



 

The Mathematician

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 2:45 PM

The chances of Mc Cain being alive and healthy in 4 years is slim. He is 72 yrs old. to be cont. off line.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:07 PM

Actually you have proven my point about women in some of the responses. IF she was not playing the tough woman she would have been accused of being weak but when she is tough she is accused of being a b with an itch. A man who is tough is not accused of that kind of behavior ever. Yet in Europe, women rule countries all the time, why is that? And politics is ALL about taking pot shots at others, pointing the finger when one has plenty of faults oneself, that is the very nature of politics. As for McCain being not alive in 4 years time? 72 ( he's just turned or just about to turn 72) is not old any more, my dad is 81 and flying around a golf course 7 days a week, not a bother on that man :-)
When one is on the defensive from the get-go because of age old prejudices about a woman not being able to be in a position of power and be a mother ( but that issue never comes up for men, the REAL issue behind my blog ) I wonder why that is ? Both presidential candidates chose v.p.'s to complement their areas of weakness, Obama chose Biden for his experience (although he was accused of not being qualified last night, although a lot of accusations flew last night) and McCain chose the Palin for the Hilary voters who were disenfranchised and for her youth.....
It works both ways here....just my two cents...
Joan
 

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:24 PM

My main point being that Condi has been accused of having questionable sexual orientation because of not being married with kids, and of being a tough woman to boot. Palin is being judged for being tough ( the pit bull with lipstick, I personally do not care for hockey or soccer moms :-)  when I am not sure any one of us can or should judge and people are asking IF she can do the job with 5 kids when one of hers is pregnant and using her kids ( the one joining up, the pregnant one and the special needs one) in her speech..
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:09 PM

Palin is ignorant that is the problem. She lacks substance. That is how I feel about Bush. She talks about preaching abstinence but yet her own kids struggle with abstinence. She needs to wake up to reality. /she does not believe in global warming. Hello, the ice is melting in the artic. She wants toteach creationism in school. She does not believe in abortion even in cases of rape and incest. Who does she speak for. Not me and not most of my friends. She can be a male as be just as mean and out to lunch. She is just as power hungry as most politicians. She has no personality. Even as plain as Condi is, you can tell that she feels. Palin is like a sociopathic V.P.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 7:31 PM

Yikes, thems fighting words and a rather harsh judgement of a woman who has just come on the scene as a vice presidential candidate. America itself has not signed the Kyoto treaty, for climate change and she does speak for the state of Alaska at the very minimum and quite frankly even though I am the furthest thing from a republican one could find, she impressed many with her speech last night. Palin has not pushed the idea of creationism in school and so kept her campaign pledge and as for abortion McCain has flip-flopped on that issue himself. As for abstinence? It certainly is something to aspire to, but in reality, many do not abstain as the birth rate has gone way up to young unmarried teenagers. I would be more concerned that McCain does not know what an average American (or for that matter, an average family anywhere in the world) has to go through to live, he could not remember how many homes he had, I know how many I have, and how I pay for them :-)
To call someone a sociopath simply because they do not hold the same values would not be something I could or would do and I do not care for some of her values, but I do not know enough about her nor am I qualified to make any kind of judgement upon her, so I will not at this time. I will let this unfold to think and see what I feel when I know her and what she stands for fully. I guess we will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this issue also.....

Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 7:37 PM

I watched her speach. she insulted Obama and laughed at his community work. She bashed everything that was people oriented. she is not personable. She had her pregnant child hold her baby during the whole first day that she came on the scene so that the preganany could be hidden. she is deceptive. there is so much truth that she is not humane. how can a woman tell a woman who has been raped that they must stay pregnant. she is inhumane to other people's feelings. i myself am prolife but i am prochoice for everyone else.
she has sociopathic tendencies. i love many republican politicians but she takes pride in being cruel and that is troubling in my book.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 7:48 PM

I watched her speech also. Your seeing her as inhumane is your perception of her, the republican national convention did not see her that way and loved what she had to say. They found her very personable.
Most politicians make personal attacks on other politicians and I have always disagreed with that. As for deception regarding her childs pregnancy? I do not see it that way, it was going to come out and it did 24-48 hours after her daughter held her youngest child. Many women try to tell others not to abort, I for one am pro-choice but certainly do not see abortion as a form of birth control but since I have NEVER had to make that choice, I am not sure what I would do in a case like that. I know I would NOT tell another what to do in that case, nor would I like to be told what to do either. I do not see her as cruel, I certainly do not agree with her membership of the NRA and do not care for the right to bear arms and have never as long as I have lived her allowed my child into a home that I have not asked if there was a gun there, if there is one there, they do not go...
Again we must agree to disagree...
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:00 PM

one more thing. there has been no sexism against Palin only favoritism. When Britney Spears sister became pregnant at age 16 Republican Bill O Riely you know the fox news fair and balanced guy stated dec 11, 2007 that it is the parents responsibility when a child becomes pregnant. Now it is sept and Bill now says that teen pregancy is a private matter now that it is a republican's daughter who is pregnant. I love the hypocrisy. It is not against sexism but the political party lines.
i made a committment to follow and investigate both sides. i hope everyone does the same. palin does not pass the smell test.
several people both repub and demo seen her snidfe remarks. how could you miss it if you were really watching her speak. it was nauseating. she bashed Obama community service work and it made ever news outlet today that she was sarcastic and she was innaccurate on her judgement of Obama. This lady is not a class act. so my perception of her was shared by many.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:06 PM

The original intent of this blog was really to point out the differences used to judge whether a man is qualified and how much deeper they dig into a womans life, marriage to decide whether she is qualified. And IF Palin does not end up being elected it should be because she is not qualified, rather than her parenting skills, and not based upon whether she can look after her family and be Vice President. It seems to have just turned into a bash Palin fest.
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:14 PM

Like I said I saw her SPEECH. ALL of it. And simply because I do not share your views, does not mean I missed anything. There has been plenty of sexism against her, questioning whether the vetting process was completed properly, and questioning whether she was capable of being a parent to 5 kids while being vice president. That in my view is sexism, and not favoritism on any level. Very high glass ceiling in this country, that is not in many others. And like I said previously I have never agreed with the political bashing that goes on from either side. They LOVED her at the convention last night...the jury is out for me...
I have never cared for Bill O Reilly. Never cared for Rush Limbaugh either, and never watch Fox news...Love the BBC World news actually :-)
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM

You know that blogs go where they go. i know so many people were happy to see a woman on a ticket. it did not matter which ticket. just like some are happy to see a black candidate. i stated that i no longer believe that women are judged more harshly. i used palin as an example. she welcomes the criticism. the media has favored her mostly. her party has made excuses for her that they would of condemned in other people. i am clearly stating that if she is being picked on, she is getting it not because of her gender but because of her attitude. it is poor. any person with a brain knows how capable a woman is. without women there will be no men. i just made my point that her whining about being a female is why she isbeing bashed is not the case. when hilary used that, she ws told to stop whining. even by palen. so the issue is not sex, it is party lines. i said my peace. this woman does scare me in the worse way though.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 4:24 AM

Gender Bias is alive and well when people question how a woman with 5 kids could do that job, same for a woman with a pregnant daughter. Those questions are never or rarely considered in the case of a man being taken into consideration for a position.  Those PROVE gender bias without a shadow of a doubt.That is my stance and it is well proven over time that gender bias still exists and is one of the glass ceilings that still has to be broken for women in this country. Pelozzi and Rice are the exception, not the rule. Obviously women are capable, however they are chosen to RUN other countries and that has never been the case here. Women have run on the ticket before and not won, Ferraro a DEMOCRAT has even has spoken out over the SEXIST scrutiny of PALIN also proving my point. SO I do not see the party line thing you speak of....
While blogs go where they go, I feel that it is my place to gently steer the blog back to the issues it was started to explore and take it away from the attack on the woman. She may indeed be a peanut butter candidate..... but maybe McCain is the jelly that can make the right sandwich for this country and maybe they can work well together, she certainly complements him.
And I am no fan of Republicans by any level.
I am no fan of personal attacks on candidates by Palin or anyone else. And I have not see enough of her to judge her so harshly.
I am not sure it would be conducive to continue this exchange as it seems to be going in circles....
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 5:06 AM

i remember when my son died and an advisor posted an offensive message about my sons death. you clearly stated that if a person is going to blog that all comments must be accepted. you said people have a right to their opinions. now i post on your blog about my opinion of palin. you do not like my opinion so you want to tell me i am wrong for having it. that it a contradiction.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 5:57 AM

I have not once said that your opinion was wrong, have not in any respectful response to you stated that you were wrong for having a different opinion in fact I have said repeatedly that we would have to agree to disagree, did you miss that? No contradiction there. I have not removed any of your comments, you have removed comments on your blog and have admitted to doing so because YOU did not agree with them. Agreeing to disagree ( at least I did) does not in any way cast any disrespect of the opinions of others, it allows for respectful disagreement.
Not one contradiction here in my comments. I make my opinion known in clear, succinct responses backed up with proof of how or why I feel that way. I am all for freedom of expression but the comments made about Palin were like a personal attack on the woman and the blog was not about that, it was to point out the gender bias in society when it comes to women in politics and positions of power.
I am choosing not to continue this debate, as while I can see some of what you are saying and agree such as the attacks on Obama were harsh and unecessary, I do not and will not change my opinion since nothing you have said has convinced me to do so.
Have a nice day all. :-)
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 7:11 AM

I agree with you Joan. The way I view Palin is she is a woman of integrity. She has nothing to hide, therefore made a decision she felt was most comfortable for her and her family. I am sorry that Politics evoke so much in everyone.

I am by far not comfortable in any debate about anything, it is an activity I abhor. I felt refreshed with Palin, celebratory for the Republican Ticket for this choice. I have been Republican all my life but known to vote Democrat when my choice is to do so..

If asked that question, what if... and Palin had to take over leading this country, I feel very comfortable with that vision. I feel she is quite capable to carry out that position. I am disappointed that women are still faced with this same old issue.

I am not compelled in any way to debate how I feel, I am comfortable where I am and equally comfortable that others have their view. I have no need to be convinced of anything, nor do I wish to convince others. In fact, I usually go out of my way to not do so. I take much that is said with a grain of salt. I too have never agreed with the political bashing I just wanted to comment on Joan's view and to say I agree with the pertinent point in her message.

I do believe, the President elect has already been decided, and I cannot be convinced otherwise. All these conventions are merely for show ~ ~ It is all an illusion.. It hardly matters what any of our opinions really are.

PEACE
EVOLU~

EVOLU

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 7:48 AM

Hot tamales, gals!  Political chat and I missed it?  I was there for a bit, but Ho-ho, lookie there!

I adore Sarah Palin even if she hunts animals and eats moose burgers.  I see the self-proclaimed pitbull with lipstick as having a LOT of personality, and many values that match mine.  I think Obama has some personality but his values don't map to mine.  Yet I respect him enough to say he HAS values.  Why Sarah Palin, who has been under the national microscope for all of 20 seconds, can be written off already is beyond me.

Donna, clearly Palin does not speak for you.  That's ok.  It does not make her bad.  She does value life, it's true, but I don't think THAT makes her bad.  She does support teaching creationism in school, but so do I and I don't even believe in it.  (Evolutionism is still theory, remember that if nothing else.)

I liked the kernal of Joan's original point...that a woman in the same position as a man is attacked on the grounds that she is woman.   That sooo does not rock.

The Mathematician

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 7:58 AM

Not a fan of the hunting or over zealous hockey or soccer moms or the NRA. Never tasted a moose burger..am not a republican, nor a democrat. Her valuing of life is her choice but if she inflicts it on us, that would disturb me and in her position that is a possibility. Yet, so far I have not seen enough of her to judge her...and if she does not succeed in her quest to be v.p. I would hope it would be based upon her not being qualified for the job as opposed to her sex, but worry we have not come far enough for that yet.
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 8:46 AM

one gift that i am about 100% on my whole life is that i can read a personality to a tee. i have never been wrong on a personality and that is my specialty. i was all in love with palin. she is gorgeous and her hubby is delicious. i liked that mc cain picked a woman although he did it for the wrong reasons. i have been studying her back ground. i have friends who live in alaska. the empath in me says something ain't right here. she is going to run over poor mc cain and there will be so much strife in his campaign until he will not have a chance to beat obama.
i talked to many peeps. especially repubs. we listened to her words of her speech, it is of no substance and she enjoyed shooting down obama on the wrong things. she left a door open and even fox who loves her had to admit how condescending her speech was.
once the personal like of her fades, she really reveals herself. i had to step back to see the dynamics. she is beautiful but her personality is not. it will become obvious to the public.
some peeps still admire bush eventhough he lied about WMD's

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 8:47 AM

race and gender is irrelevent to me. personality is everything.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 9:00 AM

Again we may have to agree to disagree on this issue. Although it appears that you do not want to. Such is your choice. Like I said ( and am getting tired repeating) her attacks on Obama, went too far, as did Giuliani's and McCain's. It is something that politicians engage in all the time and I did not care for it. And it happens on both sides, she has a high popularity rating among the people of Alaska.  That we CAN agree on, but enough comments bashing her at this point, it was not the point of the Blog. Her ability to do the job has been called into question because of her being a woman, that does not happen with a man. That was the main point I was trying to make although you disagree I have allowed you respectfully to say your say over and over. You do not care for her, I am reserving my opinion for the moment. And I am not sure it is within the ability of ANYONE to be 100% on ANYTHING. We can live with someone for YEARS and still not know them fully. Kudos to you IF you can.

Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 9:00 AM

Personality, then how Obama?  He's not exactly bubbly.  When I went to see him I was soooo excited, then let down with the lack of substance.

I'm very good at reading people, too.  And I see Palin as the woman to beat.  She's amazing.  Heck, even if she does not make it this time around, look at what it's done for her career.  I know that pisses some Dems off!    
 
BTW - Some peeps support Clinton even though he lied about Monica, Marijuana, middle-class tax cuts, Somalia, Bosnia, and I'll truncate the list but not without including White water.  Go figure.  

The Mathematician

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 11:45 AM

i promise my last word. when i say personality i mean sincerity, the ability to feel for others than oneself. i beleive that we see what we want in a person and if we take off our blinders, we can really see whats there. i knew for years, i had some troubled family members. it was my denial that delayed the obvious. i believe that if we pay attention and remove the bias, we can see right away a person's behavior and personality. people can not hide theirselves.
it will be fun to see her wer down mc cain. she is too much woman for him and is more his worst nightmare than the dems. us dems laugh at her.

justaskdrdonna

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Friday, September 05, 2008 8:31 PM

Joan dear,  I am going to by pass all the middle section here and stick to my own views, my opinions.. Great blog by the way always can count on you to really make an imprint that matters.
I sit on neither sides on any fence, just my observation here, Obama well don;t really feel him anymore,change up in energy for me,  don't think he will be to favored as much of we may have thought. McCain has more honesty connected to him and more of the founding fathers energy, plus just cannot beat that. I try to look at this "energetcially" not logically sorry just not that type of girl. I am not into the political bashing because things change very abruptly and quickly and frankly I do not give a damn.  Palin would be able to substain quite a bit I think many would be quite surprised, but like I said I go by energy not logic. The choice has been made already I think we know how this all ends..

It is not always as it may seem, surprises happen when mass consciousness steps in and wipes aways the mucus to see the real "truth"

Hugs,
Donna

GIFTED11

# re: Contradictions.......... @ Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:49 PM

Being in the spotlight does not provide much room for hiding ANYTHING. Simply because people do not agree does not mean they are biased, or have blinders on, they just disagree with your assessment of the woman. Most people have some kind of issues, some hide them better than others and we can know someone for YEARS and simply NOT really KNOW them at all.
Joan

DruidsGlenTarot

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